Topic: all_the_way_through vs. impalement + further discussion of all_the_way_through (WARNING: blood, gore, guts, death, snuff, etc.)

all_the_way_through vs. impalement

The distinction between all_the_way_through (which I will be referring to as threading from here on out as that is the term all of its child tags use) and impalement is kinda fuzzy.

The threading wiki page defines threading as:

An object, or body part, generally a penis or tentacle, shown entering one end of the body and exiting the other end.

and adds:

Typically, this is non-lethal and does not involve large amounts of blood, though small amounts may be seen. If the penetrated character shows no sign of injury, tag no internal organs. For more lethal or painful situations, use fully_impaled instead.

The impalement wiki page defines impalement as:

Impalement is the penetration of an organism by an object such as a stake, pole, spear or hook, often through the central body mass.

and adds this definition for threading under the 'see also' section:

An object is shown entering a character's body at one end and exiting through the other. This on it's own is not necessarily lethal, or even injurious.

The main ambiguity lies around the overlap between threaded_by_object and fully_impaled. First off let's look at some unambiguous examples:

threaded_by_object:

post #2682136 post #3813358 post #2658962

fully_impaled:

post #3875625 post #3257469 post #1618529

One relatively common thing that I have been told lies under threaded_by_object rather than (or along with?) fully_impaled is a type of cooking_with_furs where a character is bloodlessly spitted:

post #3939155 post #665399 post #2109754

But there are also some edge cases, where there is no or minimal blood/gore, but the character is clearly dead.

post #2551689 post #2504091 post #2445035

A problem from the other side is that the current definition of impalement does not allow for body parts to do the impaling rather than objects.

There are a number of posts currently under threaded_by_penis (or technically incorrectly under impalement) that would definitely fit a lot better under an 'impaled_by_penis' or 'penis_impalement' tag.

post #2938760 post #1571109 post #1926560

However, there are also some the only have some blood, what is the limit for a the "small amount" defined under threading?

post #2632123 post #2632156 post #127808

(the same applies for tentacles and even tails)

We could quibble about exactly where to draw the lines, but I don't think we're ever gonna arrive at a true solution that way, and we'll always have some posts that are forever being tagged back and forth. I think the best solution would actually be to abandon the distinction and just make fully_impaled subset of all_the_way_through, with all_the_way_through being applied to all the examples above and fully_impaled being applied to the ones where there is blood, gore, or serious pain. Anyone looking for threading without blood and gore will likely already have those on their blacklist, and could easily minus them from their search if not.

(Also the wiki page for impalement should be broadened to include body parts)

The Goo Problem

This other problem is a lot smaller in scope. Generally, fluids passing through a character are not counted under threading as they are not a body part or object.

The most common example of this is cum_through, which is so frequently mistagged that is is bolded and underlined on the threading wiki page:

post #2348255 post #4065473 post #1707534

Similar tags exist for water, urine, and even milk.

post #3403124 post #1353814 post #4071689

These have already been ironed out as not falling under threading. However one problem area arises with goo_creatures. Goo is at least fluid-ish, but it is also an intrinsic part of a character rather than something emitted by them, even when it's dripping or running off.

I think these should still be under threading, alongside either threaded_by_body, threaded_by_tentacle or threaded_by_penis, but I wanted to get some outside input:

post #4148457 post #4239053 post #2317317

I missed that thread when it was created and only stumbled upon it just now by chance (the search feature makes both "threading" and "all the way through" very useless as search terms), but this has also been bugging me for several years and I would be interested to see some discussion on the matter. Yes, I'm aware that I'm necroposting a 2 years old thread (about threading).

topic #29360 contained my notes when I was doing all the tagging that would lead up to BUR #2100 (the threading subtags BUR), where I had already identified some of these issues at the time.

pleaseletmein said:
One relatively common thing that I have been told lies under threaded_by_object rather than (or along with?) fully_impaled is a type of cooking_with_furs where a character is bloodlessly spitted:

post #3939155 post #665399 post #2109754

But there are also some edge cases, where there is no or minimal blood/gore, but the character is clearly dead.

post #2551689 post #2504091 post #2445035

That's the main issue that I've not been able to figure out a solution for. The idea behind the split was always "Well, it should be obvious when someone is being put to death vs being fucked 'very very thoroughly', right?", because the populations who want to see one vs the other have very little overlap. The reason I didn't commit to saying "threading is bloodless" is specifically post #1707692:

post #1707692

The indication here is that the bleeding is not caused by any organ perforation but by the barbs cutting some tubing along the way. I couldn't contort my definitions to have this fit nicely into impalement only and not threading at the time, so I left it as anal_threading (it was already tagged as ATWT) and left the bit in the tag description that says "minimal amounts of blood".

pleaseletmein said:
A problem from the other side is that the current definition of impalement does not allow for body parts to do the impaling rather than objects.

There are a number of posts currently under threaded_by_penis (or technically incorrectly under impalement) that would definitely fit a lot better under an 'impaled_by_penis' or 'penis_impalement' tag.

post #2938760 post #1571109 post #1926560

However, there are also some the only have some blood, what is the limit for a the "small amount" defined under threading?

post #2632123 post #2632156 post #127808

(the same applies for tentacles and even tails)

I didn't really touch the definition of impalement or add any new tags for it (as I would rather not spend any time looking at most of these images). That has led to some people using the threaded_by tags for impalement posts (with one guy in particular editing the ATWT wiki to say we should use no_internal_organs as disambiguation for bloodless, non-impalement ATWT), something I reject.

pleaseletmein said:
We could quibble about exactly where to draw the lines, but I don't think we're ever gonna arrive at a true solution that way, and we'll always have some posts that are forever being tagged back and forth. I think the best solution would actually be to abandon the distinction and just make fully_impaled subset of all_the_way_through, with all_the_way_through being applied to all the examples above and fully_impaled being applied to the ones where there is blood, gore, or serious pain. Anyone looking for threading without blood and gore will likely already have those on their blacklist, and could easily minus them from their search if not.

(Also the wiki page for impalement should be broadened to include body parts)

I heavily disagree that we should rely on blacklists to set appart those two otherwise completely unrelated interests, just because we can't get the definitions straight.

pleaseletmein said:

The Goo Problem

This other problem is a lot smaller in scope. Generally, fluids passing through a character are not counted under threading as they are not a body part or object.

The most common example of this is cum_through, which is so frequently mistagged that is is bolded and underlined on the threading wiki page:

post #2348255 post #4065473 post #1707534

Similar tags exist for water, urine, and even milk.

post #3403124 post #1353814 post #4071689

These have already been ironed out as not falling under threading. However one problem area arises with goo_creatures. Goo is at least fluid-ish, but it is also an intrinsic part of a character rather than something emitted by them, even when it's dripping or running off.

I think these should still be under threading, alongside either threaded_by_body, threaded_by_tentacle or threaded_by_penis, but I wanted to get some outside input:

post #4148457 post #4239053 post #2317317

I created goo_through at the time as a stopgap for specifically those posts, where threaded_by_body or similar would prove inaccurate or insufficent.