Topic: Tag alias: hate_art -> invalid_tag

The tag alias #78782 hate_art -> invalid_tag is pending approval.

Reason: looks like a niche tag certain users add to posts that are bashing "zoos" "maps" "furry-specific issues" etc as a way of protesting those posts existing
i could be wrong, just seems like a bad tag

jhudson said:
The tag alias #78782 hate_art -> invalid_tag is pending approval.

Reason: looks like a niche tag certain users add to posts that are bashing "zoos" "maps" "furry-specific issues" etc as a way of protesting those posts existing
i could be wrong, just seems like a bad tag

Is there an alternative tag that one could use to blacklist such posts?

jhudson said:
certain users

as a way of protesting those posts existing

Don't make these accusations without proof.

The wiki description says it's for posts that depict

any type of hate towards another community/person, for example, hurting a character you dont like, usually because of the artist, and then intending it to be hate.

Although this is quite vague. Where does the line of "gore art of a copyrighted character" cross into "hate art of the creators"? This type of hate art doesn't fall under TWYS. The other type does have some issues too. Does "Fuck socialism." in post #2719039 really fall under "any type of hate towards another community"? If so, it seems too broad. Although I can see a reason why one would want this, as the "fuck zoo/pedophiles" posts don't fall under politics.

Eh. I feel like this tag has its place. Art that has no reason or purpose beyond "I hate group/character/artist" isn't necessarily political but also is definitely a theme people might want to avoid (or search, idk, I'm not anyone's dad). If you want to put restrictions on who/what groups/characters/artists 'hate_art' can be applied to, idk, it kinda defeats the purpose and gets extremely murky. If there's a better word for it (anti-art isn't an option since that's a real art movement) that avoids sounding adjacent to 'hate crime' or whatever then maybe explore that option.

it was made by (literally) Anonymous over 16 years ago, it was removed from more posts than current usage total (currently 34 standing with over 40 removals), its usage is extremely ambiguous if you just look at the current result page, the more contentious ones are still in the negatives for ratings so those are easily blacklisted by that metric, some of the current uses have (at a glance or lack of background contextual knowledge) no clear depictions: https://e621.net/posts/5144886 https://e621.net/posts/4342432 https://e621.net/posts/3395581 https://e621.net/posts/435364
as an aside, that last example should be deleted for being an extremely low effort edit of its parent post and not being 'grandfathered'

it just looks very obviously to be a subjective tag that has no standard or cohesion beyond "someone made this to be negative to something either explicitly or ambiguously" and each use is often subject to vehement disagreement and tagging wars

thegreatwolfgang said:
Is there an alternative tag that one could use to blacklist such posts?

oh right i didnt reply, blacklisting by rating/votecount will protect people from the less than pleasant ones i think
also a lot of them are also filled with common 'bad' tags like gore, scat, the usual global blacklists

jhudson said:
oh right i didnt reply, blacklisting by rating/votecount will protect people from the less than pleasant ones i think
also a lot of them are also filled with common 'bad' tags like gore, scat, the usual global blacklists

That would over-blacklist unrelated posts (e.g., gore which gets a disproportionally high downvote count) and would miss "hate art" that gets an overall positive score (e.g., post #5694379 just as a purely visual example, regardless of artist intent).
And no, blacklisting the individual posts and/or artists would not be an effective solution.

There should be a tag (not necessarily hate_art) that can over all of these themes without it being it being labelled as subjective tagging.

thegreatwolfgang said:
That would over-blacklist unrelated posts (e.g., gore which gets a disproportionally high downvote count) and would miss "hate art" that gets an overall positive score (e.g., post #5694379 just as a purely visual example, regardless of artist intent).
And no, blacklisting the individual posts and/or artists would not be an effective solution.

There should be a tag (not necessarily hate_art) that can over all of these themes without it being it being labelled as subjective tagging.

dont worry i wasnt gonna suggest individual post blocking (even though it would be more easy for these posts compared to bigger tags)
i do agree that those legitimate uses deserve a tag to have
it might even be plausible to keep this tag for them and clean it from the rest, but it would require proper gatekeeping to stop people from adding it to stuff like the examples i showed that were extremely ambiguous
but i think them getting a new tag for a fresh definition away from the stigma of hate_art would be best