Topic: United States user with a question

Hi. I've made a couple forum posts before somewhat brushing around this subject, but even moreso specific, a personal expierence with cub. I've seen many people present the argument of why cub is or isnt okay. Thats not a debate that im looking for here. I'm well aware of how messy that debate can get, and for my sake and the moderators, lets avoid getting into the moral question of it all.

What I haven't seen, however, is the situation im facing, on any furry forum whatsoever, that is a feeling of guilt. I feel like im not alone in this, and it's just nobody has felt the need to post about it. or maybe I am alone in this, idk. Point is, there was a period of about 2 years, ending in july of 2025, where I was into cub content. I feel a great deal of shame about it. since july of last year, ive not engaged in it.

Hopefully by making this post I can move on with my life. My life has been in this state of limbo since then. I wont turn this into a therapy session but the fact that I liked cub made me so depressed I couldnt get out of bed some days. Thats all ill say, and spare you the rest of the dramatics.

Im not a pdf file, id never do anything to remote hurt anyone in that way in the real world. Yet I still feel shame. I guess the whole point of saying ALL of this is, how do I stop feeling shame about this?

Also, has anyone in the US actually gone to jail for specifically cub? Thats something I also have been constantly worried about. I'm a caretaker for both of my parents who are ill, and if i went to jail over that... that would be essentially killing them. So naturally, even if theres that 1% chance, I feel into deep depression.

and mods, i do feel like you probably hate this topic coming up, and i get that 100%, but im not sure where else im supposed to post about this, and get a quick response. most furry forums are dead these days, and forget reddit, that shit would definitely get deleted. I honestly didnt want to post about this here, but for the life of me i dont know where else i could have a safe space to talk about this without immediate judgement.

ok, thats enough babbling on.

gasinmad said:
Also, has anyone in the US actually gone to jail for specifically cub? Thats something I also have been constantly worried about. I'm a caretaker for both of my parents who are ill, and if i went to jail over that... that would be essentially killing them. So naturally, even if theres that 1% chance, I feel into deep depression.

as far as I'm aware, no. there are no cases of anyone in the United States being imprisoned for creation, procurement, or consumption of anything loli, shota, or cub (assuming it was produced by adults for adults, and all that). there's a possibility that I'm wrong on this, but I feel like if this was something that happens than you'd certainly hear about it when the subject brought it up every 4 months.

_{and if it was a 1% chance that'd be thousands and thousands of cases.}

gasinmad said:
and mods, i do feel like you probably hate this topic coming up, and i get that 100%, but im not sure where else im supposed to post about this, and get a quick response. most furry forums are dead these days, and forget reddit, that shit would definitely get deleted. I honestly didnt want to post about this here, but for the life of me i dont know where else i could have a safe space to talk about this without immediate judgement.

It's fine if it's a civil discussion.

gasinmad said:
Hi. I've made a couple forum posts before somewhat brushing around this subject, but even moreso specific, a personal expierence with cub. I've seen many people present the argument of why cub is or isnt okay. Thats not a debate that im looking for here. I'm well aware of how messy that debate can get, and for my sake and the moderators, lets avoid getting into the moral question of it all.

What I haven't seen, however, is the situation im facing, on any furry forum whatsoever, that is a feeling of guilt. I feel like im not alone in this, and it's just nobody has felt the need to post about it. or maybe I am alone in this, idk. Point is, there was a period of about 2 years, ending in july of 2025, where I was into cub content. I feel a great deal of shame about it. since july of last year, ive not engaged in it.

Hopefully by making this post I can move on with my life. My life has been in this state of limbo since then. I wont turn this into a therapy session but the fact that I liked cub made me so depressed I couldnt get out of bed some days. Thats all ill say, and spare you the rest of the dramatics.

Im not a pdf file, id never do anything to remote hurt anyone in that way in the real world. Yet I still feel shame. I guess the whole point of saying ALL of this is, how do I stop feeling shame about this?

As for the main question, my personal standard is that you can't control how you feel, but you can always control what you do; if you didn't promote pro-MAP ideology (& obviously if you didn't attempt to engage in IRL sexual activity with minors), then I don't see anything worthy of shame. We don't kinkshame people with rape & snuff fetishes; so long as it's not acted on (or promoted in this specific case), then I don't see cause to do so here. Perchance that mental map of morality could be comforting.

gasinmad said:
Also, has anyone in the US actually gone to jail for specifically cub? Thats something I also have been constantly worried about. I'm a caretaker for both of my parents who are ill, and if i went to jail over that... that would be essentially killing them. So naturally, even if theres that 1% chance, I feel into deep depression.

That's classic 1st amendment protected activity.

You're certainly not the first person on the internet or even this site to feel this way. My first thought when I see threads like this is "do they have OCD", but I don't know much about OCD. Anyways, just understand that it's your choice whether you choose to view cub content, but at the end of the day, it's just fiction. Nobody is getting hurt by adults fapping to cub art. The same way no one is getting hurt by violence in video games.

Also, has anyone in the US actually gone to jail for specifically cub?

I'm no lawyer, but I've never heard of furry content being deemed obscene in the U.S.. Common sense says this is the kind of legal discussion any site hosting porn doesn't want the users to dive too deeply into, but in short, I doubt anyone in the U.S. has ever gotten into legal hot water for viewing furry porn.

My answer on the other thread about the legal side should be more than adequate in addressing your concerns.
If you are still unsure, consult your lawyer since this is not the best place for legal advice.

The sense of guilt/shame you feel now stems from your own moral standards and societal expectations when it comes to the real-life consequences of actual CSAM. That is good since it shows that your moral compass is intact.
Considering that cub is neither human nor real, there should be zero shame for consuming it.

However, if you feel significant distress or societal pressure for having consumed it, then the alternative choice to stop consuming it is equally valid.

I'm sorry that you've been made to feel such intense shame over an interest in a particular art genre. I understand the feeling, I've had my own complicated relationship with transgressive art over the years.

I would like to stress that it's very likely for you that the shame comes from external sources (the feeling that others will judge you/hate you/etc over liking cub or another form of transgressive art) rather than internal (an inherent feeling that cub art is morally wrong by default). I have had the feeling of being afraid of being hated many, many times.

My art/OCs, and the stories I'm writing, are very, very dark and transgressive. A lot of young characters being abused or sexualized. I have feelings of doubt, that others will hate me for it. But I've decided that my self expression is too important for me to allow those feelings to stop me or make me censor my stories. It's part of the reason I use this site, I won't need to censor myself.

As for how to stop feeling shame over it... Remember that, at the end of the day, cub art is just imaginary characters in fictional situations. It's art, characters, ideas, stories. No one is getting hurt to make these images. People hate it because they're disgusted by the subject matter, they think that it's wrong to depict, even in fiction, and/or they subscribe to the outdated idea that interest in certain kinds of fiction will progress to interest in commiting acts of abuse in real life. There is nothing inherent to the art that makes it morally wrong.

It sounds like the shame you've been dealing with is very intense and I don't expect my forum post to change everything for you. But I've been in a similar situation as you and I remind myself that art is expression and fiction is not reality.

emionix said:
people hate it because they're disgusted by the subject matter, they think that it's wrong to depict, even in fiction, and/or they subscribe to the outdated idea that interest in certain kinds of fiction will progress to interest in commiting acts of abuse in real life.

I see that reasoning all the time, and yea, its flawed. why is it flawed? well shit, im living proof that its flawed. when i see an irl minor i am not attracted whatsoever, i am in fact repulsed entirely by the idea. So yea, I do hate that equivalence, you are absolutely right.

And if what everyone has said thus far serves to be correct, i think governments mostly account for that, at least the US. Ive heard shakier things about the UK...

thegreatwolfgang said:
However, if you feel significant distress or societal pressure for having consumed it, then the alternative choice to stop consuming it is equally valid.

Yep, heard, and I have. It's blacklisted now, and I wont interact with it. If people want to interact with it, it's their choice.

crocogator said:
My first thought when I see threads like this is "do they have OCD",

Ah, close. I have BPD, and the paranoia that comes with it. Funnily enough in july of 2025, when i stopped interacting with cub, i had just started my first anti-psychotic medication. I think it tinkered with my internal thought process and wiring.

aacafah said:
That's classic 1st amendment protected activity.

yeah man like, i get your point. my thought process even though i dont engage with cub anymore is, these are fictional creatures, you wont see them or interact with them in the real world, you could argue there isnt such a thing as a concept of a child because a child is a human being, and these arent human beings. Hell, they could just be small creatures in nature, with a youthful appearance. there are images on this site that arent tagged as cub that you could stretch an argument to say they looked "too young" or something silly due to the artstyle.

despite these rational explainations, i still feel shame, because society says: be ashamed.

So in that vein its entirely up to each individuals interpretation. So in my sane mind, yes, it does make total sense that it wouldnt be illegal and 1st amendment protected, because what even is a cub in the first place? I definitely would find it 1984 if someone went to jail over that?

plus, my rational side tells me that if this had happened it would of lit up the furry community like a christmas tree, and would perhaps even be a (semi) national issue.

but then my irrational paranoid BPD side pokes out and is like "well wouldnt it just be my luck that im the first person jailed for this, like nah fuck that."

dba_afish said:
as far as I'm aware, no. there are no cases of anyone in the United States being imprisoned for creation, procurement, or consumption of anything loli, shota, or cub

well wait, hold the phone. I can definitely see that with cub, but there are nuanced cases where people have gone to jail over loli/shota, but in all fairness the cases i found was in response to someone who was already violating parole or previously charged with something, and also in each case it was human appearing depictions, nothing furry. So overall your point stands, and is relevant to me (ive never been to jail for a damn thing in my life and ive never endulged in human appearing loli/shota), but there are those nuanced cases.

oh maybe im being annoying by fact-checking you over a small detail, in which case i do apologize >.<

dba_afish said:
as far as I'm aware, no. there are no cases of anyone in the United States being imprisoned for creation, procurement, or consumption of anything loli, shota, or cub (assuming it was produced by adults for adults, and all that). there's a possibility that I'm wrong on this, but I feel like if this was something that happens than you'd certainly hear about it when the subject brought it up every 4 months.

_{and if it was a 1% chance that'd be thousands and thousands of cases.}

Wasn't there a livestreamer who was caught with an active file of loli on his computer? I mean, he had several TB of it stored.

colinthelucario said:
Wasn't there a livestreamer who was caught with an active file of loli on his computer? I mean, he had several TB of it stored.

I know who you are talking about, Lacari I believe it was. I was thinking he had other more illegal stuff, too. However ive heard nothing about him being prosecuted thus far for his actions, and its been almost a month, so, that makes me think maybe not? If someone can shed more light on that feel free.

colinthelucario said:
Wasn't there a livestreamer who was caught with an active file of loli on his computer? I mean, he had several TB of it stored.

if you're talking about the notepad link thing, people were saying that it contained actual CSAM, I think.

I also don't know if he's been charged with anything.

thegreatwolfgang said:
If you are still unsure, consult your lawyer since this is not the best place for legal advice.

I also dont have a lawyer, im very low income. Nobody in my family has one. Upon you saying this I tried to research if I could consult a legal professional over this, and everything I stumble across is for civil advise not criminal advise. Do you know how I can possibly go forward with this, because getting professional advice is something I would like to do.

dba_afish said:
if you're talking about the notepad link thing, people were saying that it contained actual CSAM, I think.

I also don't know if he's been charged with anything.

Well, he certainly destroyed his reputation

colinthelucario said:
Well, he certainly destroyed his reputation

im actually lowk glad you brought this case up because if he can walk away legally scot-free with just a reputation damage (allbeit permanent) then that speaks volumes. I think if he had explicitly illegal material, he'd be booked in the county jail by now.

well theres a chance he could have fled already to another country but the internet is so hyper-vigilant these days he will be found eventually, probably soon, if he actually did that ofc.

gasinmad said:
im actually lowk glad you brought this case up because if he can walk away legally scot-free with just a reputation damage (allbeit permanent) then that speaks volumes. I think if he had explicitly illegal material, he'd be booked in the county jail by now.

well theres a chance he could have fled already to another country but the internet is so hyper-vigilant these days he will be found eventually, probably soon, if he actually did that ofc.

He spent the rest of the stream further incriminating himself. Then I see youtube videos afterward saying he's looking at jailtime

colinthelucario said:
Then I see youtube videos afterward saying he's looking at jailtime

hmm. again that makes me wonder if he actually had worse stuff. if anyone wants to fact check that, they can, but i wont pressure the conversation.

one more thing, im sure mods hate this topic as ive kinda said before, so if any mods have any advice on where i could actually have an in-depth discussion about this, id appreciate it. Only thing ill say is dont say reddit, thats not really a very comfortable space to discuss this.

In other words are they any (active) furry forums im not aware of?

gasinmad said:
one more thing, im sure mods hate this topic as ive kinda said before, so if any mods have any advice on where i could actually have an in-depth discussion about this, id appreciate it. Only thing ill say is dont say reddit, thats not really a very comfortable space to discuss this.

In other words are they any (active) furry forums im not aware of?

Reddit is toxic asf

colinthelucario said:
Reddit is toxic asf

well yes, thats kinda what i said that lmao

gasinmad said:
dont say reddit

Lol, yeah, on Reddit you'd probably get some... very angry comments to put it generously. Though, on a mental health subreddit like /r/healthygamergg (usually what I recommend for mental health discussions) you'd probably get mostly respectful comments with probably one random disgruntled user telling you to "kys" in some creative way. Then, the subreddit owner likely deletes the thread after a bit, presumably out of fear of the wrath of the Reddit Admins that probably don't want this topic anywhere on Reddit.

(Yes, this is based on a thread I once saw...)

one more thing, im sure mods hate this topic as ive kinda said before, so if any mods have any advice on where i could actually have an in-depth discussion about this, id appreciate it.

To be honest, I'm not sure there is a great place for this discussion. I guess a therapist is an option (as long as they understand you're not actually a risk to children).

crocogator said:
To be honest, I'm not sure there is a great place for this discussion. I guess a therapist is an option (as long as they understand you're not actually a risk to children).

I do have a therapist but i absolutely dont have the balls to bring it up, lol. plus he wouldnt be able to discuss legality in any meaningful way.

but yeah it sucks that reddit would wanna delete that type of conversation. I think it would be an important one to have. Because there absolutely should be "redemption" or whatever you want to call it for someone such as me who is walking away from cub.

and... when i say redemption i mean amongst the general public.

gasinmad said:
discuss legality

Unless you're trying to get hired by a three-letter-acronym government organization like the FBI, you're fine.

yeah it sucks that reddit would wanna delete that type of conversation

I don't think it's explicitly written in Reddit's rules, though it does kinda feel like an unwritten rule.

crocogator said:
Unless you're trying to get hired by a three-letter-acronym government organization like the FBI, you're fine.

i used to have these big ass aspirations but on the basis of my autism and BPD alone yea it aint happenin. I may be getting into government work but low level, simply because that is what my degree would be qualified for. So uh, yeah, idk if that would be an issue. In the end I just want to live a normal life, and I feel as if I deserve that chance and to not be wade down by what is essentially a phase in my life that i have now conisdered to be past.

gasinmad said:
i used to have these big ass aspirations but on the basis of my autism and BPD alone yea it aint happenin. I may be getting into government work but low level, simply because that is what my degree would be qualified for. So uh, yeah, idk if that would be an issue. In the end I just want to live a normal life, and I feel as if I deserve that chance and to not be wade down by what is essentially a phase in my life that i have now conisdered to be past.

I'm not going to pretend I know anything about government work, but good luck with finding work!

crocogator said:
I'm not going to pretend I know anything about government work, but good luck with finding work!

oh well thanks, thats very sweet of you.

so basically, in summation, the answer to my question is, "i really wouldn't worry about it" is that a good assumption?

gasinmad said:
so basically, in summation, the answer to my question is, "i really wouldn't worry about it" is that a good assumption?

Yes.

oneohthrix said:
Yes.

cool

Oh! One more question and genuinely thats it. Just something that would solidify peoples lack of worry. Does anyone know of any Twitter accounts or other mainstream platforms where people just openly post cub and nothing happens to them? If so then that definitely says to me more than anything that, hey this isn't a big deal. Also if they do exist dont tell me what account(s) there are, as I've stated in this forum im no longer interested in cub or interacting with it.

gasinmad said:
Does anyone know of any Twitter accounts or other mainstream platforms where people just openly post cub and nothing happens to them?

Yes.

gasinmad said:
Oh! One more question and genuinely thats it. Just something that would solidify peoples lack of worry. Does anyone know of any Twitter accounts or other mainstream platforms where people just openly post cub and nothing happens to them? If so then that definitely says to me more than anything that, hey this isn't a big deal. Also if they do exist dont tell me what account(s) there are, as I've stated in this forum im no longer interested in cub or interacting with it.

well, Twitter has a (very inconsistently enforced) policy that cub stuff may or may not fall under, so it'd be hard to point to many that do it and remain on there.

either way, I do want to point out that e621 itself is headquartered in Arizona, and the owner, Varka, isn't, like, a completely covert/anonymous figure or anything. I'd say if the most popular furry website is comfortable hosting cub while existing in America, I don't think many other individuals have much to worry about, on the legal front.

dba_afish said:
I'd say if the most popular furry website is comfortable hosting cub while existing in America, I don't think many other individuals have much to worry about, on the legal front.

very compelling point. Because yeah, e621 is no scary dark web entity. Its very popular and is easily reachable by a google search. You can easily view a cub image in just a few clicks given you have an account and all that. It does stand to reason if it was this big scary bad legally fickle thing, it would be much harder to access. Im sure you'd agree with that.

Although i question why sites such as discord ban cub, thats another thing that lead me down this rabbithole that i forgot to mention. I cant tell if its because they consider it CSAM (which broadly defined is illegal so that confuses me a bit) ORRRR its just a social pressure thing to "do the right thing" or what have you. Maybe you could shed some light on that, too?

Because like, im sure you can see how this might confuse someone like myself, who is pondering these questions. its one of those moments where i needed to stop and think "why would they do this, is it because cub is illegal after all?".

Not saying that is the truth, just a question that ran in my mind and furthered my depression for a time.

gasinmad said:
Oh! One more question and genuinely thats it. Just something that would solidify peoples lack of worry. Does anyone know of any Twitter accounts or other mainstream platforms where people just openly post cub and nothing happens to them? If so then that definitely says to me more than anything that, hey this isn't a big deal. Also if they do exist dont tell me what account(s) there are, as I've stated in this forum im no longer interested in cub or interacting with it.

A lot of Japanese artists do it, but I don't think it's due to the site/laws condoning it and more like because nobody reports it.
Of course, I have also seen plenty of artists get their X accounts deleted due to content violations.

Yknow I've heard and seen posted even on here in discussions that countries like Canada and the UK have different ways of tackling cub. iirc they actually have cub banned through the wording of certain laws. Correct me if im wrong. Im not asking because it pertains to me ofc, im just curious atp.