Topic: Infidelity ≠ cuckold

A lot of posts tag cuckoldry or infidelity with both tags despite them being different

I, as a person who enjoys cuck, but NTR and cheeting makes my skin crawl, have been doing my best to edit posts so they only have the correct tags

The wikis for each tag describes them more specifically, but in summery

If the person consents and gains pleasure from their partner having sex with someone else then it's cuckold

If they don't consent to their partner doing so, it's cheating and should be tagged infidelity

If the person consents but is not gaining pleasure than it is an open relationship/polyamory but shouldn't be tagged as either

To me it looks like you removed the tag from multiple posts that do not really indicate cheating, and instead are either just bit more "extreme" cuckold art with emphasis on humiliation and degradation kink, and cuck art that just... does not have character holding a sign saying "I consent!" I guess. Explicit consent and all characters looking enthusiastic to participate is not needed for the tag to apply.

I've said this before (several posts in topic #38840), but I think it's dumb to treat these tags as mutually exclusive.

it serves more utility for cuckold and cuckquean to apply to any situation where a character's romantic partner is having sex with a third party while they're present, regardless of their consent. restricting it to only situations where the partner explicitly consented both makes the tag harder to apply in questionable situations, but it also it obviously makes it harder to find the posts where the themes overlap.

dba_afish said:
I've said this before (several posts in topic #38840), but I think it's dumb to treat these tags as mutually exclusive.

it serves more utility for cuckold and cuckquean to apply to any situation where a character's romantic partner is having sex with a third party while they're present, regardless of their consent. restricting it to only situations where the partner explicitly consented both makes the tag harder to apply in questionable situations, but it also it obviously makes it harder to find the posts where the themes overlap.

I'm down for this alongside new tags for when it's obvious that the party being cheated on consents or doesn't consent.

I'm not sure if there has already been discussion on this but how do people want to approach gendered cuckold tags? cuckquean doesn't work because there are seven genders on this site. We would need something like male_cuckold, female_cuckold, gynomorph_cuckold, etc.

dba_afish said:
I've said this before (several posts in topic #38840), but I think it's dumb to treat these tags as mutually exclusive.

it serves more utility for cuckold and cuckquean to apply to any situation where a character's romantic partner is having sex with a third party while they're present, regardless of their consent. restricting it to only situations where the partner explicitly consented both makes the tag harder to apply in questionable situations, but it also it obviously makes it harder to find the posts where the themes overlap.

I think an issue is the apparent assumption that a cuckold is inherently infidelity, unless we see the cuck enthusiastically enjoying it. Looking at the latest post tagged cuckold, we have:
post #6257226
which is also tagged infidelity. Problem is, there's no indication if the husband knows or not. Like the wiki says, it's a humiliation kink, but if the husband doesn't even known it's happening, how is it cuckold? In contrast, if the husband is aware, then is it infidelity if we don't see him being upset about it? How do you determine (non)consent from humiliation?

watsit said:
I think an issue is the apparent assumption that a cuckold is inherently infidelity, unless we see the cuck enthusiastically enjoying it. Looking at the latest post tagged cuckold, we have:
post #6257226
which is also tagged infidelity. Problem is, there's no indication if the husband knows or not.

(that's also tagged motherly_cuckhold which it certainly is not.)

this shouldn't be tagged as cuckold anyway since the other partner isn't present...

but the question of assigning infidelity is actually a good one. generally we do assume everything is consensual unless there's evidence to the contrary, and infidelity requires a post to imply the lack of consent of the romantic parner. the post in question is kind of ambiguous on this point. should we just assume that any extramarital (or extra-whatever) activities be considered infidelity by default unless otherwise evident?...

watsit said:
Like the wiki says, it's a humiliation kink, but if the husband doesn't even known it's happening, how is it cuckold? In contrast, if the husband is aware, then is it infidelity if we don't see him being upset about it? How do you determine (non)consent from humiliation?

I'm not really sure if we should be taking the humiliation of the situation into account at all, really. tags with this many vectors are annoying to tag, determining if a character is even the significant other of one of the characters having sex via TWYS rules is already kinda iffy as-is. furthermore, it is usually an element, I've seen quite a few examples with situations along the lines of:
post #6233319
where that dosn't seem to come into it at all, but still definitely should have the tags applied.

I feel like the rewrite of the cuckquean wiki by maplebytes is more in line to how the tags are/should be used (although it still uses the word "infidelity" in the language, so it's not perfect).

The Japanese really did a number on your kink because...

panfricker said:
If the person consents and gains pleasure from their partner having sex with someone else then it's cuckold

... they named this Netorase and...

panfricker said:
If they don't consent to their partner doing so, it's cheating and should be tagged infidelity

... they named this Netorare.

Netorase, Netorare, Netori, etc. all fall under the NTR umbrella for them.

anonjohn20 said:
Netorase, Netorare, Netori, etc. all fall under the NTR umbrella for them.

I've never heard ntr be used for anything other than just netorare.

also, they're not _exactly_ the same, since netorare does not account for party A's consent (rape), whereas the infidelity tag generally is not considered when neither romatic partner consented to the situation.

---

anyway...

dba_afish said:
the question of assigning infidelity is actually a good one. generally we do assume everything is consensual unless there's evidence to the contrary, and infidelity requires a post to imply the lack of consent of the romantic parner. the post in question is kind of ambiguous on this point. should we just assume that any extramarital (or extra-whatever) activities be considered infidelity by default unless otherwise evident?...

thinking about this, should that situation not just be tagged swingers rather than infidelity? it's currently a relatively low population tag, but it does kinda seem like just having these two tags act as supplements to eachother it would solve the cuck* tags problem.

dba_afish said:
thinking about this, should that situation not just be tagged swingers rather than infidelity?

Swingers is more of a partner swap situation, isn't it? "Consensual cuckold" is more of an open relationship kind of deal, where one or more partners are allowed to be with other people (given an appropriate level of trust and permission), in this case just while one character is watching (or hearing) their partner have sex with someone else.

The issue is determining consent. Since according to the wiki, cuckoldry is a humiliation kink, though it doesn't clarify if that means a character having a kink for humiliating their partner (which could be assumed noncon), or if a character having a kink for being humiliated (which would be assumed consensual). It seems as though different people have a different view of what cuckoldry's about, but visually there's not much that can be seen to distinguish them (if a character likes being humiliated, they can even look upset despite enjoying it and being aroused themselves).

And it gets even messier if cuckoldry can occur without apparent humiliation, since it can still be consensual for a character to see/hear their partner having sex with another without looking 100% happy and all smiles. What's worse, is that people seem to have the preconception that any time a character's having sex with someone other than their partner, it's automatically infidelity, made even worse by often using lore/external info to know a character has a different partner than who they're having sex with:
post #6250560 post #6262887 post #6253983 post #6245934 post #6240123