Topic: [APPROVED] Teal BUR

The bulk update request #4153 is active.

Reason: Admins said we're keeping teal (forum #355550), so the tags should all be consistent and linked up.

After this goes through:
imply teal_fur -> teal_body
imply teal_fur -> fur
imply teal_tail -> tail
imply teal_horn -> horn
alias teal_horns -> teal_horn

EDIT: The bulk update request #4153 (forum #357658) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #4154 is active.

Reason: part 2

EDIT: The bulk update request #4154 (forum #357659) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #4157 is active.

Reason: part 3

EDIT: The bulk update request #4157 (forum #357662) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #4158 is active.

Reason: part 4

EDIT: The bulk update request #4158 (forum #357663) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

Is there a reason the name chosen was "teal" instead of "cyan"? I think "cyan" would be better.

Cyan is one of the secondary colors, while teal is just dark cyan. Choosing teal over cyan would be like choosing gold over yellow.

aaronfranke said:
Is there a reason the name chosen was "teal" instead of "cyan"? I think "cyan" would be better.

Cyan is one of the secondary colors, while teal is just dark cyan. Choosing teal over cyan would be like choosing gold over yellow.

we do have pink_* and purple_* rather than magenta_* or violet_*. although I would agree that cyan_* is better than teal_*, "teal" is the word that the admins have decided to keep around, I guess.

aaronfranke said:
Is there a reason the name chosen was "teal" instead of "cyan"? I think "cyan" would be better.

Cyan is a brighter teal, they're not the same. Teal tends to be inferred as more of a greenish color, while cyan is inferred as more blueish, despite both being equal mix of blue and green with just a change in brightness (colors be weird).

Purple and violet are not quite the same. Purple is a mix of red and blue, while violet is the highest energy light on the visible spectrum, and is closer to blue than purple is. Thus the expression with flowers: "Roses are red, violets are blue".

Pink is technically light red, so magenta would be more accurate for the #F0F color. I guess the intention was to have the word pink refer to between the hues of #F00 and #F0F, and purple for #F0F to #00F. That said, I would support switching to magenta, but I doubt this will happen. Anyway, I feel significantly more strong towards cyan vs teal.

I see teal as dark cyan, to me cyan is a distinct color. If someone views teal as closer to green, I think that is an illusion caused by language trying to fit things into buckets of "green" and "blue". It's the same way as people perceiving orange as a distinct color instead of yellow-red, the buckets you categorize stuff into are different.

aaronfranke said:
Purple and violet are not quite the same. Purple is a mix of red and blue, while violet is the highest energy light on the visible spectrum, and is closer to blue than purple is. Thus the expression with flowers: "Roses are red, violets are blue".

Pink is technically light red, so magenta would be more accurate for the #F0F color. I guess the intention was to have the word pink refer to between the hues of #F00 and #F0F, and purple for #F0F to #00F. That said, I would support switching to magenta, but I doubt this will happen. Anyway, I feel significantly more strong towards cyan vs teal.

I see teal as dark cyan, to me cyan is a distinct color. If someone views teal as closer to green, I think that is an illusion caused by language trying to fit things into buckets of "green" and "blue". It's the same way as people perceiving orange as a distinct color instead of yellow-red, the buckets you categorize stuff into are different.

Other than that distinction violet is the same hue as purple, so it is the same color honestly speaking.

aaronfranke said:
Purple and violet are not quite the same. Purple is a mix of red and blue, while violet is the highest energy light on the visible spectrum, and is closer to blue than purple is. Thus the expression with flowers: "Roses are red, violets are blue".

Pink is technically light red, so magenta would be more accurate for the #F0F color. I guess the intention was to have the word pink refer to between the hues of #F00 and #F0F, and purple for #F0F to #00F. That said, I would support switching to magenta, but I doubt this will happen. Anyway, I feel significantly more strong towards cyan vs teal.

Pink is weird I think most people would consider the higher end of the magenta hue space as "pink". notably "hot pink" is around 324⁰ which is closer to magenta @300⁰ than it is to red @360⁰, and colors like "salmon pink" and "peach" which are generally both considered a shade of pink go all the way into the edge of yellow, although for tagging those would probably be considered tan_*.

For our purposes pink_* is both the "rose" hue space (300⁰-330⁰) as well as mid-low saturation reds.

aaronfranke said:
Is there a reason the name chosen was "teal" instead of "cyan"? I think "cyan" would be better.

Cyan is one of the secondary colors, while teal is just dark cyan. Choosing teal over cyan would be like choosing gold over yellow.

I tend to agree, but there has been a long debate over cyan and, ultimately, the problem we had was with the severe mistagging of it in the past. Most people simply see cyan as a type of blue, despite it being very much a distinct color, and they would tag it as such. Teal, on the other hand (despite just being dark cyan) seems to be widely recognized as a distinct color. There has never really been a problem with teal mistags, at least in those teal tags that weren’t aliased away.

How about turquoise and aqua? Even though they're different colors, should they be included to teal out of convenience?

alexyorim said:
How about turquoise and aqua? Even though they're different colors, should they be included to teal out of convenience?

I thought they were? They're all mixes of green and blue, right? Ugh, cyan is a mess because of stupid color theories from before who knows when.

alexyorim said:
How about turquoise and aqua? Even though they're different colors, should they be included to teal out of convenience?

I would say they're closer to teal than blue or green, so yes, I believe so. They're not really distinct enough for their own separate tags either, though.

alexyorim said:
How about turquoise and aqua? Even though they're different colors, should they be included to teal out of convenience?

turquoise and aqua are both within the cyan colorspace.

I'd say anything between about 165⁰ - 195⁰ (#00C0FF - #00FFC0) should be considered teal, stuff beyond that starts feeling more green or blue.

sipothac said:
turquoise and aqua are both within the cyan colorspace.

I'd say anything between about 165⁰ - 195⁰ (#00C0FF - #00FFC0) should be considered teal, stuff beyond that starts feeling more green or blue.

Also, the annoying factor that subjective color perception because of neighboring colors exists. :/

cyan is bluer than teal. I don't care what any colorspace claims.

hjfduitloxtrds said:
cyan is bluer than teal. I don't care what any colorspace claims.

true cyan is, by definition, an equal distance from blue and green.

from Wikipedia:
Teal is a greenish-blue color. [...] The word is often used colloquially to refer to shades of cyan in general.
[...]
Hex triplet #008080

sipothac said:
true cyan is, by definition, an equal distance from blue and green.

also from wikipedia:

Teal can be created by mixing cyan into a green base. Therefore, cyan =/= teal because it is mixed with green to make teal

hjfduitloxtrds said:
Teal can be created by mixing cyan into a green base.

It can also be created by mixing cyan into black or grey, evenly dimming the luminosity of both, or by reducing the brightness of cyan. Colors aren't exact, the hue can shift slightly and still allow us to perceive it as in the range of some color. Since teal is normally perceived as a more greenish color, adding a bit more green as a way to lower the brightness is effective at making a color we still perceive as in the teal range (unless you mix in too much green and block too much blue).

in any case, for tagging purposes, anything within ~15⁰ of pure cyan should be tagged with a teal_* tag.

_{assuming a "well lit" image with balanced colors.
with exceptions where the saturation is so low that it would be considered white/grey/black}

sipothac said:
in any case, for tagging purposes, anything within ~15⁰ of pure cyan should be tagged with a teal_* tag.

_{assuming a "well lit" image with balanced colors.
with exceptions where the saturation is so low that it would be considered white/grey/black}

we need cyan_* tag because cyan =/=teal

hjfduitloxtrds said:
we need cyan_* tag because cyan =/=teal

we do not need two color families to cover slightly different sections/luminosity of the cyan hue space. we only do that with brown because it's extremely common.

teal is darker cyan, cyan is brighter teal; same hue, different luminosity. neither one is more green or more blue than the other, they are both equally green and blue one is 255 green + 255 blue, the other is 128 green + 128 blue.

I don't know how many more ways I can say cyan is #00FFFF and teal is #008080. I can't use [color:cyan]cyan[/color] and [color:teal]teal[/color] because I think only priv+ can do that, but I'm not sure that'd even help.

if you think that teal and cyan are different hues either a) there's something wrong with the color balance of your display b) your definition of cyan is diffrent than everyone else here c) your definition of green and blue are diffrent from everyone else here or d) some combination of the previous three.

Guys we can argue about colors all day long but gattonero2001 said it's gonna be teal. forum #355550

sipothac said:
we do not need two color families to cover slightly different sections/luminosity of the cyan hue space. we only do that with brown because it's extremely common.

teal is darker cyan, cyan is brighter teal; same hue, different luminosity. neither one is more green or more blue than the other, they are both equally green and blue one is 255 green + 255 blue, the other is 128 green + 128 blue.

I don't know how many more ways I can say cyan is #00FFFF and teal is #008080. I can't use [color:cyan]cyan[/color] and [color:teal]teal[/color] because I think only priv+ can do that, but I'm not sure that'd even help.

if you think that teal and cyan are different hues either a) there's something wrong with the color balance of your display b) your definition of cyan is diffrent than everyone else here c) your definition of green and blue are diffrent from everyone else here or d) some combination of the previous three.

a) there's nothing wrong with my display. I've used many different displays with the same result b) I wouldn't know because I don't know how every other user defines cyan c) my definition of green and blue is green and blue, respectively d) no, no and no e) cyan looks bluer than teal. I don't care what cyan is #00FFF and teal is #008080. If cyan was teal, it'd be called teal. cyan is cyan. teal is teal. You can tell me 10 times and it wouldn't make any difference. Cyan is not teal. Cyan is, however, similar to teal.

hjfduitloxtrds said:
a) there's nothing wrong with my display. I've used many different displays with the same result b) I wouldn't know because I don't know how every other user defines cyan c) my definition of green and blue is green and blue, respectively d) no, no and no e) cyan looks bluer than teal. I don't care what cyan is #00FFF and teal is #008080.

cyan does not look bluer than teal, you're just wrong on this, they're the same hue and they look like the same hue.

hjfduitloxtrds said:
If cyan was teal, it'd be called teal. cyan is cyan. teal is teal. You can tell me 10 times and it wouldn't make any difference. Cyan is not teal. Cyan is, however, similar to teal.

teal is a shade of cyan; a subset of cyan.

just like chartreuse is a shade of green, or rouge is a shade of red, or lilac is a shade of purple, or salmon is a shade of pink, or dandelion is a shade of yellow, or navy is a shade of blue, or peacock is a shade of cyan.

cloudpie said:
Guys we can argue about colors all day long but gattonero2001 said it's gonna be teal. forum #355550

I'm not even arguing the name of the tag family, I'm fine with the name. I'm just arguing that teal _is_ cyan.

EDIT: here, this is roughly how our current set of colors are tagged (at 100% lum, brown/black/grey not included for obvious reasons). I think splitting it up more would be silly, this set is perfectly fine. (maybe we could split pink and magenta, but, ehh.)

sipothac said:
cyan does not look bluer than teal, you're just wrong on this, they're the same hue and they look like the same hue.

teal is a shade of cyan; a subset of cyan.

just like chartreuse is a shade of green, or rouge is a shade of red, or lilac is a shade of purple, or salmon is a shade of pink, or dandelion is a shade of yellow, or navy is a shade of blue, or peacock is a shade of cyan.

I'm not even arguing the name of the tag family, I'm fine with the name. I'm just arguing that teal _is_ cyan.

EDIT: here, this is roughly how our current set of colors are tagged (at 100% lum, brown/black/grey not included for obvious reasons). I think splitting it up more would be silly, this set is perfectly fine. (maybe we could split pink and magenta, but, ehh.)

Cyan is not teal. Teal is not cyan. Cyan is tagged as teal because it is the closest color tag, and we don't need millions of different color tags. Don't get me started on magenta. Magenta is not pink. Pink is not magenta.

hjfduitloxtrds said:
Cyan is not teal. Teal is not cyan. Cyan is tagged as teal because it is the closest color tag.

cyan is not teal, but teal is cyan. trying to argue that teal is not cyan is like arguing that ice isn't water.

teal is dark cyan.
ice is cold water.

sipothac said:
cyan is not teal, but teal is cyan. trying to argue that teal is not cyan is like arguing that ice isn't water.

teal is dark cyan.
ice is cold water.

Cyan is not water. It's not even a fair comparison. I probably could not find one person who would argue that ice isn't water. Color is more subjective and thus more arguable. Ice is frozen water. Teal is not frozen cyan. You can't freeze cyan to get teal.

Can someone please approve these already? having teal fur still aliased when its an official color is a pain in the ass.

pleaseletmein said:
Can someone please approve these already? having teal fur still aliased when its an official color is a pain in the ass.

I don't know why this is still not approved. Teal is an official color, yet some aliases to green still exist. It is rather frustrating that teal_body is a tag but teal_fur is not.

The bulk update request #4153 (forum #357658) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #4154 (forum #357659) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #4157 (forum #357662) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #4158 (forum #357663) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

Big pog (I have now used the teal fur tag for the first time)

alright, now we've just got to alias all the cyan_* tags over and all will be right with the world

We LOVE to see it! Thank you rainbow dash!

The bulk update request #5746 is active.

create implication teal_fur (1707) -> teal_body (4844)
create implication teal_fur (1707) -> fur (2163775)
create implication teal_tail (297) -> tail (1842028)
create implication teal_horn (96) -> horn (814232)
create alias teal_horns (0) -> teal_horn (96)

Reason: this part

EDIT: The bulk update request #5746 (forum #380288) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

YEAY!

approved by @Rainbow_Dash! _Yay! Thank you @Rainbow_Dash! Finally teal is fixed

The bulk update request #5746 (forum #380288) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.