Very good

Toby Fox if he wasn’t a coward.

A version without the blood would be nice.

Cant wait for chapter 5

The soul: I assure you Kris, raping your childhood friend is necessary in order to stop the Roaring

toby really should've thought twice about that... ~defloration~ animation, huh

sunofureiku said:
toby really should've thought twice about that... ~defloration~ animation, huh

I get what he was going for, loss of innocence, he probably thought it'd make more sense to be very blunt, but I think he underestimated how people jump to conclusions

cutiefbifed said:
I get what he was going for, loss of innocence, he probably thought it'd make more sense to be very blunt, but I think he underestimated how people jump to conclusions

I honestly didn't even think of it as being that sexual until I saw that it got changed. A rose losing it's petals is/was a very common symbol for "loss of innocence", so I just took it as "there is nothing anyone can do to keep Noelle from understanding what she did"

e254e delivers

It's not just 4chan but I've seen people interpret that scene as SA in literally every platform where the game is being discussed. Surprised no one told Toby while making it

Everyone cheering that the inevitable got drawn, meanwhile here I am all giddy about her cute candy cane-print panties.

RAPE!! RAPE! RAPE! RAPE!

Teaching people to discern between Fiction and Reality should be like a year long highschool course or something....

even if it wasn't a physical rape, the scene very much still comes off a a mental one, even without the rose

iller said:
Teaching people to discern between Fiction and Reality should be like a year long highschool course or something....

It used to be common understanding. 😒

temp7 said:
It used to be common understanding. 😒

Common sense, so rare it's a goddamn superpower.

aquasnek445 said:
I honestly didn't even think of it as being that sexual until I saw that it got changed. A rose losing it's petals is/was a very common symbol for "loss of innocence", so I just took it as "there is nothing anyone can do to keep Noelle from understanding what she did"

Wait wait wait. It's changed? Like the game got updated to remove that?

biomorph said:
Wait wait wait. It's changed? Like the game got updated to remove that?

All he changed was this one little detail.

Which, in fact, changes absolutely nothing: the implications are still strong.

EDIT: it has now been changed to this.

Yeah, it wasn't the first thing I thought about, but after a bit of consideration I definitely knew ol' e254e was gonna do something with this scene.

temp7 said:
All he changed was this one little detail.

Which, in fact, changes absolutely nothing: the implications are still strong.

keep the rose, remove the wilting. problematic subtext gone. Beautiful imagery kept.

Such a shame the replacement scene is so plain in comparison

badgerreborn said:
Toby is too much of a doormat to tell his fanbase to get the fuck over themselves.

He lacks a backbone and caves easily to hysterical criticism. Self-censorship is never acceptable.

Remember when he quietly removed any mention of him promoting YIIK the second that game got dogpiled on?

Well I guess this is the 100% canon meaning behind the scene now.

I can't believe Toby Fox made this canon.

boneslee said:
RAPE!! RAPE! RAPE! RAPE!

Insert that one gif of Donald Trump on the WWE shouting rape

badgerreborn said:
Toby is too much of a doormat to tell his fanbase to get the fuck over themselves.

He lacks a backbone and caves easily to hysterical criticism. Self-censorship is never acceptable.

the rest of the scene is unchanged dude, calm down

badgerreborn said:
Toby is too much of a doormat to tell his fanbase to get the fuck over themselves.

He lacks a backbone and caves easily to hysterical criticism. Self-censorship is never acceptable.

mobscoob said:
the rest of the scene is unchanged dude, calm down

He's right though. Give an inch, they take a mile. The scene is not meaningfully changed, but who knows how Deltarune's unfinished chapters could be altered by this?

An artist should never be afraid of criticism to the point of censoring their creation. Appeasement in this case is actually setting a dangerous precedent.

temp7 said:
He's right though. Give an inch, they take a mile. The scene is not meaningfully changed, but who knows how Deltarune's unfinished chapters could be altered by this?

An artist should never be afraid of criticism to the point of censoring their creation. Appeasement in this case is actually setting a dangerous precedent.

This would be true if the artist is forced to change their original meaning/intention to appease someone.

But in this instance, the change is due to his original meaning being misinterpreted by the audience in a way he didn't intend for it to be interpreted.

Everyone's saying he "censored his original vision", but it seems to me he just got rid of a small element that was causing people to make an interpretation he never meant to be made.

I don't get how that's censorship or dangerous. He's fixing a mistake, not hiding truth.

qwazzy said:
This would be true if the artist is forced to change their original meaning/intention to appease someone.

But in this instance, the change is due to his original meaning being misinterpreted by the audience in a way he didn't intend for it to be interpreted.

Everyone's saying he "censored his original vision", but it seems to me he just got rid of a small element that was causing people to make an interpretation he never meant to be made.

I don't get how that's censorship or dangerous. He's fixing a mistake, not hiding truth.

Because it won't stop there. The change as it is, is petty and purposeless: the fans now know they can make him bend.

temp7 said:
Because it won't stop there. The change as it is, is petty and purposeless: the fans now know they can make him bend.

Nothing was censored? The intent of the rosepetal scene was supposed to be an analogy to the action that happened, forcing the thorn onto her in order to "infect" Noelle with the SOUL possessing Kris, because the thorn ring is a thorn and there's a certain flower we all immediately think of when it comes to thorns. However that came with the implication of deflowering, and combined that with forcing Noelle to do things against her will, people made the rape assumption. Led to some hot ass art but it's not an unfair connection to make, especially because you still are literally raping Noelle's soul both here and in Chapter 2, leading to some even hotter ass mind-break art. Presumably nobody on the team made the connection, or maybe Toby just has a mindbreak fetish (dude worked on Homestuck afterall so he's probably about as vanilla as chocolate but I'm not going to seriously psychoanalyze the guy on e621 this is just a very long joke), but when fans did make that connection they decided that wasn't what they wanted to make the intent of the scene to be.

So instead it was changed to being much more literal, using the same... I don't know if you can call a single pixel a graphic but let's just call it one for simplicitys sake, but using the same graphic. The actual contents didn't change, the intent didn't change, the only change was a misconception they didn't want to have happen. This is a personal example I had a couple months ago but I imagine some others might have had with another phrase in their lives, but it's akin to using the phrase "fucking around with someone" and when someone misconstrues that as meaning you're literally having sex with them, you then correct them with another phrase (edit for clarification here) like "messing around" or "faffing about" or whatever and then everyone moves on with their day after being reminded once more than the English language is kind of a mess.

Also Streisand Effect means that we're probably going to see a lot more Noelle bullying art than we did before which is a strict win in my book. My fetish has been firmly fueled.

azoy said:
(snip - holy paragraphs Batman!)

I'm not disagreeing with your logic: the deflowering visual metaphor is a very fair connection to make and the change - factually - alters nothing.

I'm just saying that it sends a certain message to the wrong crowd: that complaining enough can get their way with regards to art. The kind of people who abuse the report system instead of using the blacklist.

temp7 said:
I'm not disagreeing with your logic: the deflowering visual metaphor is a very fair connection to make and the change - factually - alters nothing.

I'm just saying that it sends a certain message to the wrong crowd: that complaining enough can get their way with regards to art. The kind of people who abuse the report system instead of using the blacklist.

If he were self-censoring, wouldn't he have just removed the entire scene instead of a graphic at the end of it, though?
Like the whole scene is about that, the animation is just a visual metaphor...

temp7 said:
I'm not disagreeing with your logic: the deflowering visual metaphor is a very fair connection to make and the change - factually - alters nothing.

I'm just saying that it sends a certain message to the wrong crowd: that complaining enough can get their way with regards to art. The kind of people who abuse the report system instead of using the blacklist.

can't even go fap these days without major spoilers huh. yeah trying to read as little as possible, but I'm gonna tell you this: If the change changes nothing, then why did the change happen?
This is specially true with toby fox; given how much care and attention he gives to the story overall but also to every detail, we know this from undertale, we know this from chapters 1 and 2. The fact that he put the detail in focus somewhere tells me that this detail is important enough to be there and be given focus. It sets a bad precedent, not just for the people who see this as a sign that they can pressure him to change other things, but also that going forward he might consider a priori these reactions and alter the story itself to avoid it.

gnpfrslo-ejioup said:

can't even go fap these days without major spoilers huh. yeah trying to read as little as possible, but I'm gonna tell you this: If the change changes nothing, then why did the change happen?
This is specially true with toby fox; given how much care and attention he gives to the story overall but also to every detail, we know this from undertale, we know this from chapters 1 and 2. The fact that he put the detail in focus somewhere tells me that this detail is important enough to be there and be given focus. It sets a bad precedent, not just for the people who see this as a sign that they can pressure him to change other things, but also that going forward he might consider a priori these reactions and alter the story itself to avoid it.

And this button exists for a reason

Dude, this entire image set is a spoiler. Why are you complaining about spoilers on spoilers porn?

gnpfrslo-ejioup said:

can't even go fap these days without major spoilers huh. yeah trying to read as little as possible, but I'm gonna tell you this: If the change changes nothing, then why did the change happen?
This is specially true with toby fox; given how much care and attention he gives to the story overall but also to every detail, we know this from undertale, we know this from chapters 1 and 2. The fact that he put the detail in focus somewhere tells me that this detail is important enough to be there and be given focus. It sets a bad precedent, not just for the people who see this as a sign that they can pressure him to change other things, but also that going forward he might consider a priori these reactions and alter the story itself to avoid it.

And this button exists for a reason

The Deltarune/Undertale fandom makes spoiler protection irrelevant: just avoid all social media next time, until you play yourself. Otherwise: your fate is sealed. 😆

But regarding the topic: considering the smallness of the change I'm retaining hope that he doesn't alter his intended story. As i pointed out, nothing substantial is actually changed by this little detail. And by changing it, the Streisand Effect just draws more attention to the original, anyway.

But you're right about the precedent it sets. It's always better to not bother changing your art for someone else's sake.

spacehouse said:

keep the rose, remove the wilting. problematic subtext gone. Beautiful imagery kept.

Such a shame the replacement scene is so plain in comparison

It's been upgraded: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JLUZlbKhjsg&t=515s&pp=2AGDBJACAQ%3D%3D

gnpfrslo-ejioup said:
If the change changes nothing, then why did the change happen?

The change happened because a subset of the audience mistakenly interpreted the scene as Kris being forced to physically sexually assault Noelle as opposed to shattering her mentality. Toby clearly did not mean for a portion of the audience to go into the next chapters thinking Highschooler Kris raped their childhood friend, & so changed it. I don't get what the issue is? Why do people even think it’s because the audience complained, & not Toby making sure the proper interpretation is given?

chernie said:
The change happened because a subset of the audience mistakenly interpreted the scene as Kris being forced to physically sexually assault Noelle as opposed to shattering her mentality. Toby clearly did not mean for a portion of the audience to go into the next chapters thinking Highschooler Kris raped their childhood friend, & so changed it. I don't get what the issue is? Why do people even think it’s because the audience complained, & not Toby making sure the proper interpretation is given?

Given the romantic subtext (dating shoes, LOVE) and the marriage allegories (ring, white clothes) and the more raunchy implications ("YOU'VE BEEN MAKING [Hyperlink Blocked]!") I don't think they got the wrong impression so much as taking it too literally.

Which is their problem. Not Toby's.

Having never played the games or looked at the media surrounding them, it would seem that reading the comments was a mistake.

I KNEW IT

elevator-friend said:
Everyone cheering that the inevitable got drawn, meanwhile here I am all giddy about her cute candy cane-print panties.

I was so happy when I saw them!

Actually, she shouldn't have argued with her SPOUSE. Pronouns, people!